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Ron Paul


posted by: Jen Mary
January 2, 2008
9:58 am

 I'm not sure why any Catholic or pro-life person would support Ron Paul.

 Ron Paul,
Voted NO on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage (twice, Jul
2006 AND Sep 2004)
Ron Paul also voted NO on restricting interstate transport of minors to get
abortions. (twice, Apr 2005 AND Jun 1999)
Ron Paul also voted NO on making it a crime to harm a fetus during another
crime. (twice, Feb 2004 AND Apr 2001)
With all due respect, Ron Paul's congressional record on supporting human
life protection effort isn't spotless as you can see. Please check the
following link for confirmation of such. I'm not making this all up. It is
the truth.
http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul.htm

He is getting all his money from prostitution rings also, which makes me wonder if he promised to support prostition.




gk's picture

posted by: gk
January 3, 2008
9:17 am

I see posters and stickers all over the place for Ron Paul.  He has a good underground (grass roots) in my northern NJ area.  Two first names.  That will confuse things a bit.  President Paul.  That sounds a little informal.  If elected has he clarified if he plans to cheat on his wife in the oval office?  (please take this post lightly ... I understand the importance of the vote ... just looking for threads to pull in the discussion).

GK - God is good!


michaelme's picture

posted by: michaelme
January 3, 2008
9:24 am

GK:

A presidential vow of chastity? I kind of like that.

In Christ,
Michael

"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"



"The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - GK Chesterton


wljewell's picture

posted by: wljewell
January 5, 2008
9:12 am

God loves you .

"The Presidency Conventual", huh?

I've been repeating this post all over this forum:

Catholic Answers has a booklet about voting that should be in every Catholic's hands: Voter's Guide for Serious Catholics (http://www.caaction.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=54&Itemid=95). The pamphlet is no shill for any faction, but what a Catholic should be guided by, in culture of life terms.

I bought a hundred in 2004 to stuff in the church pamphlet rack - suggesting 50 cents to the poor box as payment.

This year, I may look to accumulate more for the rack. However, they also offer a bulletin insert covering the same issues. The bulletin can be downloaded gratis, and printed for parish bulletin use. Maybe, it should be used twice: now, in primary season; later, just after the party conventions, when the 'lucky' candidates are politicking in earnest.

And, hence, whatever worldly noise happens, Catholics have a certain guide for giving every candidate a good look.

Remember, I love you, too .

In our delighted glory in our Infant King,

Pristinus Sapienter

(wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)


michaelme's picture

posted by: michaelme
January 8, 2008
11:47 am

Though I'm not a Ron Paul supporter, I'm also not a strong detractor (not keen on moving from fiat money and fractional reserve to "some standard"). One thing that I've not seen is Mr. Paul (or any site) providing the reasons he voted against the bills above. It may be that the text of the bills as voted contained language that too greatly weakend the bill, in his opinion...as I said, I've seen nothing on his reasons but I don't think that we can assume that a bill summarized as "restricting interstate transport of minors to get abortions" is necessarily a bill that we would want passed if ammendments or certain wording served to do greater harm than having no bill in place.

While looking through his webpage at house.gov, though, I did find this:

"Theology, not Politics

April 11, 2005

Members of Congress from both political parties outdid themselves last week in heaping praise upon Pope John Paul II in the wake of his passing. Many spoke at length on the floor of the House of Representatives, and some even flew to Rome for his funeral.

I’m happy to witness so many politicians honoring a great man of God and peace. The problem, however, is that so few of them honored him during his lifetime by their actions as legislators. In fact, most members of Congress support policies that are totally at odds with Catholic teachings.

Just two years ago conservatives were busy scolding the Pope for his refusal to back our invasion of Iraq. One conservative media favorite even made the sickening suggestion that the Pope was the enemy of the United States because he would not support our aggression in the Middle East. The Pontiff would not ignore the inherent contradiction in being pro-life and pro-war, nor distort just war doctrine to endorse attacking a nation that clearly posed no threat to America-- and conservatives resented it. September 11th did not change everything, and the Pope understood that killing is still killing. The hypocritical pro-war conservatives lauding him today have very short memories.

Liberals also routinely denounced the Pope for refusing to accept that Catholicism, like all religions, has rules that cannot simply be discarded to satisfy the cultural trends of the time. The political left has been highly critical of the Pope’s positions on abortion, euthanasia, gay marriage, feminism, and contraception. Many liberals frankly view Catholicism as an impediment to the fully secular society they hope to create.

Both conservatives and liberals cannot understand that the Pope’s pronouncements were theological, not political. He was one of the few humans on earth who could not be bullied or threatened by any government. He was a man of God, not a man of the state. He was not a policy maker, but rather a steward of long-established Catholic doctrine. His mission was to save souls, not serve the political agendas of any nation, party, or politician.

To the secularists, this was John Paul II’s unforgivable sin-- he placed service to God above service to the state. Most politicians view the state, not God, as the supreme ruler on earth. They simply cannot abide a theology that does not comport with their vision of unlimited state power. This is precisely why both conservatives and liberals savaged John Paul II when his theological pronouncements did not fit their goals. But perhaps their goals simply were not godly.

Unlike most political leaders, the Pope understood that both personal and economic liberties are necessary for human virtue to flourish. Virtue, after all, involves choices. Politics and government operate to deny people the freedom to make their own choices.

The Pope’s commitment to human dignity, grounded in the teachings of Christ, led him to become an eloquent and consistent advocate for an ethic of life, exemplified by his struggles against abortion, war, euthanasia, and the death penalty. Yet what institutions around the world sanction abortion, war, euthanasia, and the death penalty? Governments.

Historically, religion always represented a threat to government because it competes for the loyalties of the people. In modern America, however, most religious institutions abandoned their independence long ago, and now serve as cheerleaders for state policies like social services, faith-based welfare, and military aggression in the name of democracy. Few American churches challenge state actions at all, provided their tax-exempt status is maintained. This is why Washington politicians ostensibly celebrate religion-- it no longer threatens their supremacy. Government has co-opted religion and family as the primary organizing principle of our society. The federal government is boss, and everybody knows it. But no politician will ever produce even a tiny fraction of the legacy left by Pope John Paul II.

To which I can only add, "Well put."

In Christ,
Michael

"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton
"The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC


wljewell's picture

posted by: wljewell
January 8, 2008
12:39 pm

God loves you .

Indeed, well put. I see no mention of how as President he would do anything to correct the 'separated surrender' of churches to the state. Cheerleading a dead leader is hardly policy.

For example, did he, and how did he, promote the Justice-ships of John Roberts and Samuel Alito? In reference to pro-life efforts . . .

Remember, I love you, too .

Toward our holy and prosperous New Year in Christ,

Pristinus Sapienter

(wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)


lpioch's picture

posted by: lpioch
January 8, 2008
12:41 pm

I can't say I'm much of a Ron Paul supporter either, but I have been watching candidates when I get a chance.  This is what I GLEEN myself from watching him respond.  These are my GUESSES as to why he voted as such.

Ron Paul voted NO on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage

His position clearly is that the national governement should step out of any legalities of defining anything.  Also, I suspect a "strict constitutionalist" is generally going to be against almost any constitutional amendment.

Ron Paul also voted NO on restricting interstate transport of minors to get abortions.

I think Ron Paul is again against the idea that the national government should be involved in legislation regarding abortion.  As with some other candidates, it should (at most) be on a state level. 

Ron Paul also voted NO on making it a crime to harm a fetus during another crime.
Can't come up with one for this one.  You'll have to just use your imaginations, I guess.

 

Like I've said before, it is PLAUSIBLE that this strict constitutionalist approach COULD be good.  If we were starting with a clean slate.  However, one first has to address how to get out of the quagmire we are already in on so many levels.  He has never addressed this.  He simply repeats "Well, we just stop doing _______" or "We just don't do ______" or whatever.  I think he's living in an ideal world (ideal for him) without taking into account history and reality. 

Just my own personal take.


christmylife's picture

posted by: christmylife
January 17, 2008
2:53 pm

Ron Paul certainly is a candidate worth discussing, particularly among Catholics.  (I wish I had reasons to applaud our Catholic brother in the presidential race;  unfortunately, that won't be happening).

I looked at every Republican candidate very closely, and I credit my Catholic education as a guide throughout the entire process.  No one candidate really appealed to me on objective grounds - their ideas, proposals, philosophy, and past accomplishments did not satisfy what I believed was necessary in a president.  Then I encountered Ron Paul, both in person at the NH Durham Debate (9/5) and on the Internet.  He is honest, principled, and reasonable once you understand where he is coming from on the issues.  In short, Ron Paul is a statesman, not a politician. 

That doesn't mean I wholeheartedly endorse everything he stands for.  I don't believe any of us could do so with any candidate running.  Ron Paul, however, cuts to the core of every fundamental issue facing America today:  too much government, too little personal responsibility.  He understands very well the principle of subsidiarity; his approach to foreign policy is informed, intentionally or not, by Catholic social teaching and the just war theory; he respects the primordial role of parents as the primary educators of their children; and he is undoubtedly an advocate of the culture of life - his own practice as an OB/GYN proves that. 

Read what he says about John Paul II ("Theolgy, not Politics")...that is not a politician speaking, but a statesman.  When I read a speech from Pope Benedict XVI pleading for more diplomacy among nations, I wondered if our Holy Father consulted Ron Paul's website before writing it!  He is grounded in a world view that many believe is antiquated, yet I believe those principles would bring more peace and stability to the world, particularly the Middle East.

Yes, often he becomes the target of ridicule - his fellow presidential candidates laugh at him at debates, the news media follows through with any and every slander piece they can hash up again - but when one looks through these distractions and discovers the principles driving his political life and his candidacy, one can only admire his conviction. 

My fellow Catholics, who you support or vote for - if you haven't already - is your personal choice, and I'm not writing to persuade you.  Just look closer at Ron Paul.  Compare and contrast him with the "front-runners" who, in my opinion, leave more to be desired.  And in the end, please make YOUR choice YOUR OWN...do not vote for the media darling, or the poll favorite, or based on likeability or electability or "change-ability" - vote for the candidate your conscience informs you to vote for. 

Peace to you all,

Scott N. 

   



posted by: internate
January 24, 2008
3:30 pm

For those who might be interested in what the National Catholic Register had to say about Ron Paul:

Paul stands alone among the Republican presidential candidates as one who voted against the Iraq war, stating that it was unconstitutional, since it never received a congressional declaration of war. If elected president, Paul promises to withdraw troops from Iraq.

Thomas Peters, who runs the blog American Papist, contributes to a blog called Catholics for Ron Paul. He noted that since the Vatican hasn’t spoken magisterially about the Iraq war, Catholics can continue to debate the issue. “He [Paul] has philosophical and rational reasons for why he thinks that American involvement isn’t the best choice,” said Peters. “He examines the question using principles of just war theory, specifically speaking about the Christian tradition of a just war,” he added.

Paul mentioned the Vatican’s comments regarding the Iraq War when paying tribute to John Paul II’s legacy. “The Pope’s commitment to human dignity, grounded in the teachings of Christ, led him to become one of the most eloquent spokesmen for the consistent ethic of life, exemplified by his struggles against abortion, war, euthanasia and the death penalty,” he said on the floor of the House of Representatives on April 6, 2005, four days after the Pope’s death.

Although initially a supporter of the death penalty, Paul changed his position after studying the issue throughout his political career.
Some religious voters remain skeptical about a vote for Paul, as his strict interpretation for the Constitution pits him against federal legislation to ban prostitution, drugs and homosexual “marriage.”

Peters said, “Ron Paul voted against the marriage amendment, but only because he thought it was non-constitutional, not because he doesn’t think marriage isn’t a union of a man and a woman.”

Link to this Article on Catholics for Ron Paul

 

Enjoy!

NT






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